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Darkelf's additions are partially useful, but partially speculation that is, I think, a little too speculative for the article. Anyone else have an opinion? Jwrosenzweig 00:01, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- I've made a few minor changes to the language. Darkelf, do you think I'm still being accurate? Everyone else, does this put the article on better ground or worse ground, and should there be any further alterations about speculative Orc origins? Jwrosenzweig 00:15, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- I have no real problems with the recent edit. Since I do not consider myself an authority on Tolkien, but just an amateur Tolkienist, my attempt is not to speculate too much, but to clarify the Orc origin problem: if given time I will attempt and back up my claims with page references from HoME. I will add back a note about the Goblin King however, if you disagree and feel this is merely speculation, may I request the section is placed in this talk page perhaps? Darkelf 00:37, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)
- While Tolkien originally saw all Orcs as descended from tortured Elves, later comments of his indicate, to some, that he began to feel uncomfortable with this theory. "Some" here includes Christopher Tolkien, in HoME, or at least that is the thought which I read in his words. Darkelf
I have begun adding source material backing up my arguments to this article, I would appreciate it if any over-quoting could be quickly warned of. I do not wish to submit more copyrighted work than is absolutely necessary. Darkelf 01:15, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)
- I believe the quotes added are sufficient source to back up my arguments. If you disagree with (part) of my additions and remove it, please elaborate why here. Darkelf 01:35, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)
- I agree with your contributions as to the origins of the Orcs. Your analysis matches what I have read elsewhere. JeMa 20:23, Jan 7, 2004 (UTC)
I looked into the Warhammer40K sections on Orks, and it is almost word for word of the official Warhammer 40K WebPage for those Orks. here (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/orks/background/default.htm) This is Under Copyright according the the Games Workshop Web Page. However, I lack the Knowlege in the Orks of Warhammer to Edit this effectively. Also, I am new to the Wikipedia, and have been hesitent to do anything really, what with my bad spelling, and grammer. Headrattle June 25, 2004
Dividing the article
The article is getting quite long. Maybe we should move some of the longer sections to Orc (Middle-earth), Orc (Warcraft), Ork (Warhammer 40,000) etc. with only one or two-paragraph description for each in the main article? Ausir 12:29, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
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